How the Church Should Respond to Same Sex Marriage

Last month President Obama publicly acknowledged his support for same sex marriage in an interview with ABC News. Shortly before the interview, the president called Dr. Joel Hunter, pastor of Northland Church near Orlando and a spiritual adviser to the president, to tell him about his decision. Hunter told the president that he disagreed with his view on marriage, but the decision would not fracture their friendship.

I had the privilege of meeting Dr. Hunter and his wife in April at the White House Easter Prayer Breakfast. As we walked along the grounds of the White House and West Wing, I asked Dr. Hunter about his friendship with President Obama. He told me what he said to NBC News last week: “I love him and he’s a friend.” We also discussed how his church members have responded to their evangelical pastor being so close with a Democratic president. His response was both wise and full of grace.

So when news broke about President Obama’s “fully evolved” position on same sex marriage, I decided to contact Dr. Hunter about it. Specifically, I wanted to know what he was saying to his congregation about the matter, and how he thinks other Christians should react to the rapidly shifting cultural views on marriage. Once again, his thoughtful remarks struck me as both wise and gracious.

What are you telling people in your church about the President’s announcement last week that he supports same sex marriage?

First, it gives us a wonderful platform to reemphasize the definition of marriage as God has laid it out in Scripture. We are not free to redefine it once God has defined it. Secondly, I am saying we have to be careful not to enter into a culture war. We have gay people in our congregation. They are people made in the image of God, and we want them to come close to him in Christ and follow God. So we have to remember that this is a hurtful issue for many, many people and we have to be very respectful as we talk about it.

Third, we have to remember that this is a leadership issue. The church should not try to manage society. 1 Corinthians 5:12 says “what have we to do with judging outsiders?” Our business is the Church. We have to be careful not to expect people to follow the same values that Christians follow. Even though marriage is a sacred thing to us, that doesn’t mean it is to everybody. So as this conversation continues, we need to differentiate what is expected from a biblical, obedient Christian and what’s expected from someone who is acting from another worldview. They may have every right to make whatever legal arrangements they want for their relationships, but we have to make sure that the church is protected to do what it believes it is right and not violate its conscience.

Rather than fighting against same sex marriage, do you feel we should be working harder to protect religious liberty?

I think the conversation needs to be extended to include protecting religious liberty. Right now the conversation is only about the civil rights of gay people, but let’s also lift up the rights of those who want to practice their religion without being afraid of lawsuits. If gay marriage becomes civil law, then we need protections for the churches that choose not to marry gay couples. We need to know we will not be open to lawsuits. We do not want to be forced into something that would violate our conscience and our faith.

Was that part of your conversation with President Obama?

When the President called me, I told him that his support of gay marriage is going to be perceived by some Christians as a war on religion. I don’t agree with that, but we’re talking about perception here. I also told him there is an opportunity to lift up both sides--respect for gay people and respect for religious practices that limit the covenant of marriage.

How did the President respond?

He is there. The President is a Christian, and he gets it. He knows what we believe about traditional marriage, and he doesn’t want to violate religious conscience. But there is still a lot of conversation that needs to happen to see how this will actually work out. Until we hear statements and see policy that protects churches and religious liberty, then I’m not sure everyone will be reassured.

Are you concerned that this announcement will spark a new round of culture wars?

Yes, I am. It’s starting right now as people are beginning to organize a response, and given the history of some of these leaders it could become another culture war. But we need to be a third voice saying we don’t need to go there.

What advice do you give pastors who are scared to address marriage or gay rights issues because they’ve become so politicized?

I absolutely understand why pastors are reluctant. Some pastors live in fear of upsetting people because they don’t want to lose their jobs, but many of us are also concerned about dividing the congregation. But we still have to talk about God’s “Plan A” for marriage and raise up examples of exemplary marriages. We don’t have to approach this as a culture war and say the nation is going to hell in a hand basket. We can talk about the positive principles of Scripture without attacking those who disagree with us. I think more pastors feel equipped to do that.

What about critics who say the divorce rate within the church is doing more to harm marriage than anything else? Have we lost moral authority on this issue in the culture?

They certainly have a point, and they can point out our failings. But our platform will always be Scripture. We must stand on Scripture with an understanding that what it says is very difficult for people.

FIND THIS ARTICLE AT: http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=87188c8737bc50c1a2fb8e2c9&id=5696f25902&e=d3ef06aa8b

Government Is Not the Enemy, Nor the Only Answer

Last December, the Gallup organization published the results of a poll about what Americans think “will be the greatest threat to the country in the future.” Sixty-four percent of respondents named “big government” as the greatest threat. Almost immediately a conservative blogger declared, “It is official. Government is the enemy.” Commentary’s Peter Wehner read the numbers as “good news for conservatives.” “They re-confirm,” Wehner wrote, “that this remains a center-right nation, one instinctively committed to limited government and the free market.”

Vigilance about government overreach is always wise; it also has its dangers. The problem with jumping from a normal concern about government intrusion to a far-flung conclusion that all governmental growth is bad is that it falls short of logic, practical solutions, and, for Christians, the foundational place of government in God’s design.

A biblical overview stands in contrast to the simplistic but popular objectification of “the government.” Objectifying the government as beneath us is as intellectually lazy and dismissive as objectifying women or races. The government is people. And most of the people I have met who serve in governmental capacities are working hard to fulfill their responsibilities of office. We can argue whether their office is truly needed, but we cannot simply lump them all together as “the enemy.”

The beginning verses of Romans 13 summarize God’s design to use and shape governments. He always had believers involved with government as agitators or advisors. Some of the prophets in both the New Testament (John the Baptist and Paul) and the Old Testament (Jeremiah, Hosea, Amos) offered corrective rebukes to those in power. Others (Joseph, Nehemiah, Esther, Daniel) offered guidance inside the halls of power to both non-Hebrew-God believing leaders and to Hebrew-God believing leaders.

God has instituted government for our well-being. If government policy or leaders are bad, we are to oppose what we deem to be hurtful rather than helpful. But Romans 13:1-7 reveals that government is of God, government is a minister of God, and rulers are servants of God. Spiritually, government is not the enemy.

Logic also declares, “Government is not the enemy.” Jesus taught us that loving our neighbor involves practical help for those in need (Luke 10:30-37). The problems are too big for one faith community or even all faith communities combined to solve—extreme poverty, the ravages of climate change, the horrors of human trafficking, the financial bankruptcy of long-term medical conditions, et al. Logic would tell us that we must enlist various kinds of partners to help with a more comprehensive effort to effectively love our neighbor. Government funding is a necessary and welcome support for those who have no other effective safety net.

It is naive to believe that if the church was doing its job, the government would not have to be in the business of taking care of the needy. Would the church, or all religious institutions together, ever replace government aid? Practically speaking, and even faithfully believing, I say the answer is no.

A small church pastor, Chuck Warnock, summed it up quite nicely. He pointed out that according to figures from the Cato Institute and the Center on Policy and Budget Priorities, the average church would have to double its budget and funnel all its extra giving just to replace the government’s Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program—aka SNAP (formerly called food stamps). What makes this idea surreal is that almost every church is struggling to meet its week-to-week expenses. And these figures do not even address the additional provisions of government assistance: transportation, job training/education health care, et al.

Our church in Longwood, Florida has experienced firsthand the value of partnering with government agencies. For example, last March, when 60 Minutes did a segment on the challenge of homeless school children in our own county, the show highlighted how the school board and local faith communities banded together to set up a food bank at every school in the county. School-church partnerships mean needy kids don’t go hungry on weekends or during breaks when they are away from reliable food sources at their schools. Additionally, in order to break the cycle of homelessness, churches can do what the school and government cannot. In our church we provide a caseworker, often trained with government funds, for each family that wants personal support to work towards financial independence.

In the traditional Christian understanding of government, government is not the enemy; neither is government the answer. Government is a possible partner in completing faith communities’ mission of loving and serving our neighbors in practical ways. In God’s economy, government agencies and faith communities cooperate to maximize what each can provide for the community. God uses governments to provide material support for the well-being of those in need. He uses faith communities to promote the well-doing of those struggling due to circumstances or choices. He intends the right mix of faith communities and government to create a healthier, more loving society.

Pastor Hunter to Hometown Church: "You’re the Reason I’m In Ministry"

SHELBY -- He is one of the top pastors in the world, and in 2011 was named one of the "50 Most Powerful People in Orlando."

Since graduating from Shelby High School in 1966, the Rev. Joel Hunter also has become one of President Barack Obama's spiritual advisers, but he said little of it would have been possible without the foundation he received from his hometown.

Hunter is senior pastor at Northland Church, in Longwood, Fla., a church where he grew membership from 200 to more than 15,000.

Hunter, who was invited to preach Sunday morning at his home church, The Shelby First United Methodist Church, took the podium around 10 a.m. He started by asking the congregation to excuse him if he happened to cry during the sermon.

Few held back their own tears as he reminisced about his days growing up in Shelby, and shared what the 18 S. Gamble St. church means to him.

"It is so, so good to be back in this church," he said. "Thank you for welcoming me back. This is a big deal to me. A very big deal. I hope you'll all indulge me in a few moments of nostalgia."

"This church is a very big part of who I am. I often talk about the Shelby church in my sermons. I say I went to the First Church in Shelby, Ohio, where all the men wore pin stripes on their suits and all the women wore fruit in their hats."

The whole sanctuary erupted in laughter when Hunter singled out Dwight Somerville, a choir member who has been a church member since 1950.

"I knew Jesus would be here, but I wasn't sure about Mr. Somerville," Hunter said. "This is amazing!"

Hunter said his original goal was never to go into ministry, but that the civil rights movement changed his path in life.

"There was a little custodial couple (who used to attend the church) and they didn't have two nickels to rub together," he said. "There were times in seminary when I just wanted to quit because I didn't think I was good enough to do this -- but that was before I learned it wasn't about our goodness but about God's goodness.

"And from time to time I would get a letter in the mail from that couple with a check for $5. Now I know what you're thinking, back in those days $5 was a lot of money, but it really wasn't -- but it was more than they had. And there would be a little note inside saying, 'Joey, we think you'll be a good minister someday.'"

Hunter paused as his eyes welled up.

"And it was just enough to keep me going," he said, his voice cracking. "That's what this place means to me. You're the reason I'm in ministry. I feel the same way about the whole town."

Hunter's sermon dealt with relationships and the importance of human differences.

"Everyone has a different reason for coming to church," he said. "Some come because of relationships or they're looking for relationships, but they all see that God has something for them.

"If you have someone who thinks just like you, one of you is not necessary. Differences are so important. God knew that in order to be a healthy church, we had to be a combination of differences. So as God grew the church he grew us to work together, and he grew us to be a team."

Jeanette Allard, of Shelby, raved about Hunter's speech as the congregation filed out.

"It was absolutely wonderful," she said. "He's such a good speaker. It was very inspiring. It brought tears to my eyes."

Hunter told the congregation no matter where he's preaching and living, the Shelby church will always be with him.

"Every time I walk into the Oval Office and I speak with the president, you're there. Every time I meet with church leaders from other countries, in meetings so secret no one can ever find out, you're with me. I loved listening to the choir this morning. I haven't heard a church choir in I don't know how long, but I miss it. And I loved listening to all the family concerns you shared. With a church of 15,000, if we did that, we'd be here till next week -- but yet we're in the same church. You have strengths and weaknesses my church doesn't have, but we are all the church together."

FIND THIS ARTICLE AT: http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20120528/NEWS01/205280306/Fond-memories-Shelby?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7C%7Cs

Obama's Spiritual Adviser Speaks in Shelby, Ohio

SHELBY -- Last week he was sitting comfortably in the Oval Office, but the Rev. Joel Hunter said returning to Shelby this weekend will be an exciting honor, too. Shelby, his hometown, will keep him busy.

Friday night, the spiritual adviser to President Barack Obama spoke at Shelby High School's graduation. Hunter is a 1966 Shelby graduate. At 9:15 a.m. Sunday, he will preach at the First United Methodist Church, where he grew up.

"I went there every Sunday with my grandmother," Hunter said. "I've been in ministry over 40 years, but always think of myself as a kid from Shelby who has a really good foundation."

When he attended Ohio University in the 1960s, Hunter said he never imagined he'd end up in ministry.

"But I was part of the civil rights movement and when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated, I felt crisis," Hunter said.

He recalled the words of a former pastor of his Shelby church: "Nothing will be right in the world until you take care of the sin in your own heart."

Hunter began attending the chapel at OU and said he felt a calling from God. He eventually changed his college path, went into ministry and became one of the most prestigious pastors in the country. Hunter is senior pastor at Northland Church, in Longwood, Fla., a church where he grew membership from 200 to more than 15,000.

"I don't really know what to attribute it to," he said. "Every day you go in and try to do the right thing, and God arranges the rest."

Hunter has gained national attention through his relationship with the president.

"About four years ago, I was featured in an article in the New York Times," he said. "Following that article, then-Senator Obama called me and said, 'I want to catch up with you.' He wanted to know what I thought was the right relationship between faith communities and government."

The pair met again at a spiritual event. Afterward, Hunter said, an Obama staff member asked if he would pray for the future president.

"I walked out to a hallway and figured there would be 50 pastors there, but it was just he and I," Hunter said. "Since then, he's asked me to pray for him at major events in his life. The night he was elected president, I was on the phone praying for him."

Since his election, Hunter said, Obama has asked him to write devotions for him every week.

"Our relationship isn't political, it's pastoral. I've simply become a pastoral voice in his life," Hunter said. "I'm very aware of his position and where God has put him in life, but a pastor's life is very simple. Our job is to help anyone who needs to get closer to the Lord. That's my job, no matter who you are.

"Here's the most powerful person in America, but the pastor part of me says, 'Here's just another person who wants to get help.'"

Hunter's Sunday speech is open to the public.

The Rev. Tom Snyder said many local people have fond memories of Hunter.

"This is a great way for the older folks to reconnect and for others to hear from a wonderful man of God," he said.

Hunter will attend the service at 22 S. Gamble St. with his wife, Becky.

"I'm going to talk about lifelong lessons learned from Shelby, Ohio," he said. "I'd like to give people a broader perspective of how God uses us in broader ways than we can think."

FIND THIS ARTICLE AT: http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20120526/NEWS01/205260313/Obama-s-spiritual-adviser-speak-Shelby?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7C%7Cs

Religion and Ethics (PBS): Churches Working to Welcome Individuals With Disabilities

Over the years, America’s millions of physically, mentally, and emotionally disabled have made great strides in the workplace, but places of worship have lagged behind. See how Northland, along with many other churches and individuals, are working to change this.

Obama's Spiritual Adviser Rebukes President on Golden Rule, Same-Sex Marriage

The Rev. Joel Hunter of the 15,000-member Northland church, who is often referred to as President Barack Obama's spiritual adviser, said he is disappointed with the president's use of the "Golden Rule" to explain his endorsement of gay marriage. "The Golden Rule is in the Bible but it cannot be used to contradict God's marriage pattern reaffirmed by Jesus in Matthew 19:4-5," Hunter shared in an interview with The Christian Post. "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become one flesh?'"

FIND THIS ARTICLE AT THE CHRISTIAN POST: http://www.christianpost.com/news/obamas-spiritual-adviser-rebukes-president-on-golden-rule-same-sex-marriage-74745/

Obama affirmed his support for same-sex marriage in an interview with ABC News on Wednesday, which has sparked a great deal of debate in America among supporters of the traditional definition of marriage, and those who want to see gay marriage legalized.

"In the end, the values that I care most deeply about, and she (Michelle Obama) cares most deeply about is how we treat other people. We're both practicing Christians and obviously this position may be considered to put us at odds with the views of others but when we think about our faith the thing at root that we think about is not only Christ sacrificing himself on our behalf but it's also the Golden Rule – treat others the way you'd want to be treated," Obama stated.

Some have accused the president of being blasphemous for implying that Jesus supports same-sex marriage, but Pastor Hunter explained to CP that he does not believe such a hard case can be made against the president.

"I do not believe the president is being blasphemous, or even treating the Bible without regard. Christians have different ways of interpreting the Bible. Some think human love or struggle should take precedence over the plain meaning of the text. Others (like many of us evangelicals) try to follow what the moral law throughout the Scripture says no matter how uncomfortable that is. We believe the Bible is centered on God, not man," Hunter commented.

"Though I disagree with the president's interpretation of Scripture in this crucial issue, I will not abandon our friendship," Hunter added. "I will just keep telling him what I believe the Bible says and leave the rest to God."

The Florida pastor was contacted by Obama before ABC News broadcast the historic interview Wednesday. Hunter revealed to WOFL FOX 35 that he expressed his disagreement to the president during that phone call. Obama, who had affirmed the biblical definition of marriage while on the 2008 campaign trail before his views began to "evolve," also told Hunter he would protect the religious freedom of churches that oppose gay marriage.

"He knew where I stood, because I'm an evangelical and I believe in what the scripture says. One of the reasons he was calling was to protect our relationship and give me a 'heads up' on an interview he had just done," Hunter said. "It wasn't something we were able to talk through, or I would have talked him out of it.

"He told me how much he prayed and how difficult a decision this was for him."

New Faces of Homelessness

In Seminole County, one in every 50 children are homeless and that’s growing. This CBN story documents hardship and the hope for changing their lives.

World Evangelical Alliance condemns the burning of the Qur’an

Terry Jones, minister of a 25-member congregation in Gainesville, Florida publicly burned a copy of the Qur’an today — as he had warned he would do — an act strenuously condemned by the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA). The WEA is the global association of evangelicals, representing some 600 million Evangelical Protestants around the world. “The burning of a sacred text is wrong and unwarranted. The burning of the Qur’an is especially grievous to Muslims and does not reflect the biblical values nor the spirit of the Lord Jesus whom we serve," said Dr. Geoff Tunnicliffe, Secretary General of the WEA. "We appeal to Islamic leaders worldwide to understand that this self-proclaimed antagonist does not represent Christians. Indeed he violates the call of Jesus to love people everywhere. Such violence does harm to us all. ”

Jones' public burning followed a personal meeting and intense conversation just one day earlier with representatives of the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA), including Tunnicliffe.

Tunnicliffe had personally challenged Jones to listen to fellow Christian leaders from North America — and if not them — at least hear concerns of a Christian pastor from an Islamic country. Rev. Daniel Ho of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia was at the meeting requesting that Jones divert from this course of action, along with Dr. Joel C. Hunter, pastor of Northland Church in Orlando and Dr. Brian Stiller, Global Ambassador for the WEA. The group met with Jones for approximately 90 minutes.

Jones first came to public attention in September, 2010 when he threatened to burn a Qur’an. He eventually withdrew his threat, but staged an online mock trial on Islam and burned a copy of the Qur’an in April 2011. Within days, 22 UN workers and nine protesters were killed in Afghanistan, two were dead in Pakistan, with churches attacked and Bibles burned in Hyderabad.

Jones’ current campaign is directed at the Iranian government around the issue of imprisoned pastor Youcef Naderkhani, who has been tried and convicted of apostasy and attempting to evangelize Muslims. Naderkhani is under sentence of death, a matter strenuously objected to by the US State Department, the Canadian government and other countries.

However, Jones admitted during the meeting with WEA members that the case of the Iranian pastor was simply a current opportunity to object.

In meeting with Tunnicliffe and associates, Jones said that after spending 30 years in Cologne Germany, he returned to find his beloved America awash in moral corruption, weakened by a failing church, diminished by a “gutless” government and overrun by Islamic clerics and their threat of Sharia law. Jones said: “God spoke to me” about defacing Islam in desecrating its Qur’an and doing what he could to “wake up America.”

Operating under Stand Up America Now, an organization whose purpose, according to its website is "is to encourage Americans and the Church to stand up." Jones concedes this had nothing to do with Christian love or evangelism, but are “acts of resistance or revolution.”

Because love and evangelism were weak, “unable to make a dent,” Jones believed it was time to cause a stir. He says that he had no idea of the public interest in the public burning of Islam’s holy book: “I didn’t realize it would create such a stir.”

But he took that very stir as a sign: “God wanted me to get involved.”

The Friday, April 28 meeting was a tough, no-holds-barred conversation. The dialogue was respectful, direct and civil. The WEA group focused on biblical values, living as Jesus would have us live, caring for consequences of Christians in other lands and reviewing Jones’ logic that he was the courageous one.

Jones confusion over love for America – as he thinks it was and should be – and the Gospel was obvious. While reminding the delegation that he followed Christ, he no longer believes loving others is a fair and workable strategy.

“Would you be willing to come to Malaysia and look into the faces of my family and tell them why you burned the Qur’an, if your action caused my death?” asked Malaysian Pastor Ho. Jones had no answer.

Asked if he had ever met a Christian leader from a Muslim-dominated country, he laughed. When asked if he ever had concerns over what his actions and words did to Christians in such countries, he said, “I bear no responsibility.”

Pressed to line up his actions with biblical values and the call of Jesus, he referred to Abraham and Moses, examples of “biblical characters that have done crazy things.”

“God told me to do it,” is his central mantra.

The WEA group pressed him with his own logic: if his end game was to get the attention of the American government, why not do some outrageous act that would really get them to listen? And if he wanted to point out the errors of Islam, why not go to an Islamic country and burn a Qur’an there?

He laughed: “They’d kill me.”

Jones was reminded that by standing behind the defenses of free speech laws in the United States — aware that what he is doing may very well get others killed —was an alarming demonstration of cowardice. If he really wanted to show courage, one member noted, then he should go to where his actions will get him killed. Then he would be courageous.

His response? “Yes but I’d be killed.”

Geoff Tunnicliffe closed our meeting with the story of William Wilberforce, an English Member of Parliament who chose to give his life to end slavery.

In the recent movie, Amazing Grace, a government minister rose in the British parliament after the passing of the anti-slavery legislation and said in effect: "When we think about heroes our minds go to people like Napoleon. Yet when his head lay on a pillow at night, he dreamt about death and violence. Mr. Wilberforce when your head lies on the pillow tonight, you will think about those you had part in freeing across the world."

At the meeting, Tunnicliffe asked, “Pastor Jones when you put your head on the pillow what kind of images do you want to see?”

Tunnicliffe noted: “As I travel the world, I recognize the tensions between Muslims and Christians. However, it is critical that we find respectful way of dealing with our differences. Not only is it important that we learn how to live with respect and in peace. For us as Christians, it is our calling Jesus’ to follow in his ways and in the spirit of his love.”

FIND THIS ARTICLE AT: http://www.worldea.org/news/3965

Sanford pastors seek unity over Trayvon Martin case

Pastor Derrick Gay delivered the bad news. As the newest member of the Sanford Ministers Fellowship, Gay had been asked to talk with Trayvon Martin's parents about the pastors' desire to hold a community-wide memorial service for their son.

"The initial response was no," Gay told the group of predominantly white pastors, explaining that the Martin family knew that a group of black pastors also was making plans. "They want all pastors to come together. If this area is to be reconciled, it has to be a united effort."

FIND THIS ARTICLE AT: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-sanford-ministers-20120424_1_pastors-holy-cross-episcopal-church-strang-communications

When asked why the Martin family rejected their overture to begin the healing process in a city sharply divided by race, Gay was blunt to his fellow pastors.

"Look around you," said Gay, one of the few black members of the Fellowship. "Frankly, there is a group missing from the room collectively."

The shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman has exposed not only the racial divide that shapes Sanford's politics, neighborhoods and culture, but also its churches.

Pastors on both sides — black and white — agree on some things. One is that God has a hand in what is going on and is using Sanford to uncover problems that exist in every city. The second is that for the death of Trayvon to become a transformative event for Sanford's race relations, it must start with the churches.

"We know if there is no unity within us, you won't see it in the community," said Pastor Harlan Walker, senior pastor of Word of Faith Ministries in Sanford.

Sanford finds itself in the unwelcome spotlight of a nation watching it work through the problems of race common in every city. It is both unique and ordinary.

"Sanford is a microcosm for America," said Father Rory Harris, rector of Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Sanford. "We are a broken community, and we need to step forward to show spiritual leadership."

Bringing pastors of all colors, denominations and theologies together was the original idea for the Sanford Ministers Fellowship, said Pastor Jeff Krall, who co-founded the group. The concept was to build personal relationships among ministers, friendships forged over weekly lunches and prayer.

Krall believes that is one of the reasons God chose Sanford: The city could become the model of how crisis can create change.

"We believe that it happened here because there has been some ground work of people of God who want to see communities come together," said Krall, pastor of Family Worship Center in Sanford.

But from the beginning, Krall said, it was hard to enlist black ministers. Some who joined left, saying they felt more comfortable among their own kind. Some members, black and white, left when the group tried to move from talk and prayer to action. Others stayed but became discouraged by too little action and too much talk.

After 20 years, the Fellowship had only about a dozen members.

Trayvon Martin has changed that. A recent Fellowship meeting drew 50 pastors. At another gathering of Seminole County pastors organized by religious publisher Strang Communications, 75 ministers attended, including Northland Church Pastor Joel Hunter and Episcopal Bishop Greg Brewer.

"This event has given us a crisis moment to create unity," said the Rev. Paul Benjamin, a longtime member of the Fellowship.

But the effort to unite must overcome a long history of separation, pastors said. There is no past precedent to follow, no regular interaction between black and white pastors.

"There is no relationship. We are not together," said the Rev. Harry Rucker, senior pastor of Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church in Sanford.

Rucker contends there can be no coming together of black and white pastors until there is an honest and heartfelt reckoning of the racism and injustices that exist in Sanford. Until Trayvon, Sanford functioned as if the racial divide was nonexistent and the problems below the surface of everyday life were unimportant.

"What happens with racism is there is a norm that's not written law, but you know how to move around and you know how to survive under the system," said Rucker, a Sanford pastor for 29 years. "We accepted the separateness, but the white community did as well. The prevailing race problem hinges on comfort."

But the expectation within the black community that religious leadership needs to step forward also revealed the disunity among even Sanford's black churches. An organization of black churches in Seminole existed for a time before dwindling away in the 1990s, Rucker said.

A new group of about a dozen black pastors is in the process of forming. The group will meet again this week, Rucker said, to decide on a name and designate its leaders. Once that is completed, he said, a meeting between white pastors and black pastors might be possible.

"We have to sit down and vent the truth. We have a black and white problem here," Rucker said.

President Obama’s Other Pastor

A conversation with the Rev. Dr. Joel C. Hunter of Florida about his civil rights testimony, defending President Barack Obama's faith, and the local ministerial response to the Trayvon Martin case.

FIND THIS ARTICLE AT: http://www.urbanfaith.com/2012/04/the-pastor-the-president-and-civil-rights.html/

The Rev. Dr. Joel C. Hunter grew up in small town Ohio, the son of a widowed mother who loved black jazz musicians. Now he is a spiritual adviser to President Barack Obama and pastor of 15,000-member Northland, A Church Distributed, in Longwood, Florida. “Cooperation and partnership are hallmarks of Dr. Hunter’s ministry,” his church bio says. “Together, he believes, we can accomplish more because of our differences than we would on our own—without giving up our unique identities.” UrbanFaith talked to Hunter about how this kind of cooperation is possible, and about his unique testimony of coming to faith after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., his friendship with the president, and what Sanford area ministers are doing in response to the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. The interview has been edited for length and clarity.

UrbanFaith: You have a unique testimony in that you were involved in the Civil Rights Movement and came to the Lord after the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. You also recently wrote an op-ed for Charisma about the Trayvon Martin case. Has racial reconciliation always been a thread in your ministry?

Joel C. Hunter: Yes, it has been. The little town I came from in Ohio didn’t have one ethnicity other than white. I think it was one of those Midwestern towns that had a law about the exclusivity of races. But my mother, who reminds me in some ways of President Obama’s mother, was one of those free spirits who loved everybody and thrived on Jazz: Nat King Cole and all of those great—back in that day they were called “Negro geniuses” with music. And so, when I went to Ohio University, it was a natural thing for me to go to the other end of the spectrum and get involved almost immediately with the Civil Rights Movement. It wasn’t from a faith perspective that that first happened, but when Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated, I went to Galbraith Chapel, a little generic chapel at Ohio University, and came to Christ. Caring for those who are left out was at the core of my calling to ministry and that’s always been.

Now that there has been an arrest in the Trayvon Martin case, have things settled down in the Sanford area?

We are in the same county and I’m actively meeting with ministers from Sanford, being led by the African American ministers. We have another meeting scheduled for tomorrow night about how we can take our community toward, not just reconciliation and healing, but toward improvement because of what has happened here. We’ve had ongoing meetings together: prayer meetings and brainstorming meetings. We may have a community memorial service with the Martin family. I’m not sure. The publicity has somewhat died down now, but the ministers and spiritual leaders are much more conversant, active, and cooperative than we’ve ever been. So, I’m thinking God is really going to do something wonderful from this.

As a pastor who comes from a relatively humble upbringing, how do you keep being a spiritual adviser to the president of the United States in perspective?

I don’t know how this happens, but it’s really true: people are people to me. The president is a person. He’s great about this; he has a great sense of humor and he’s very personable, so it’s not like this is a lot of work. I realize that to the world, it’s a long way for a kid from Shelby, Ohio (where the largest buildings literally are the grain elevators for the farmers), but to me he’s a person and the job of a pastor is to help the person in front of him or her to get closer to God. And so, that’s exactly what I do.

I remember a time when I had had a conversation and a prayer with the president and within 24 hours I was back at my church talking to a AIDS-infected prostitute who wanted to get closer to the Lord. It struck me that my conversation with her resembled very closely the conversation I had had with the president less than 24 hours previous. To me, that was the ultimate. That’s what a pastor does. Each person has the same value in God’s eyes. I didn’t count one of those conversations more valuable than the other.

When your five-year-old granddaughter Ava passed away from glioblastoma in 2010, the president called you and prayed with you. How do you respond to criticism of his faith when you’ve been so personally engaged with him on a spiritual level?

The president called me when Ava was first diagnosed and then, of course, he called me when she passed away, so it was very tender and kind thing for him to do. I understand that people are ignorant, that is they lack knowledge about his faith walk. I realize there is some political agenda when people accuse him of not being a Christian. I’m not naïve about that, but the president and the candidate Barack Obama chose—even more after he was president—not to make his faith walk very public because he knew it would be politicized and that’s an area of his life he didn’t want politicized.

I always say that nature hates a vacuum and when you don’t have a lot of information, you will fill it in with your latest email. That’s exactly what happens. I know from personal experience and from many personal conversations that they’re wrong. I know his daily practice of reading Scripture. I write many of those devotions. Our prayer times in the Oval Office, over the phone, and on special occasions have been just as sweet and participatory as you can imagine. Of course, there’s always the defensiveness for a friend. I consider the president a friend and any time a friend is wrongly accused, you want to defend them. But, by the same token, I can’t really go much further, because this is the president and I don’t want to give a lot of information that is not directly related to his role and official duties. So, I have to be very careful about not saying too much.

You were on a press call defending President Obama’s faith around the time the Rev. Franklin Graham publicly questioned it. How do you address other Christian leaders who cast doubt on the president’s faith?

I can and do openly tell them about my personal relationship with the president and my personal knowledge of his spiritual life. Sometimes I say I wish most of the people in my congregation were as attentive to reading the Bible every day, praying every day, and trying to put their faith into practice as the president is. Some of them are really taken aback, because they just don’t have the knowledge. It’s not covered in the media by design. That’s fine. I’m very open about my personal knowledge of his walk.

I heard the president debate Sen. John McCain at Saddleback Church in 2008. He seemed more articulate and comfortable talking about faith than McCain then and continues to sound more comfortable and articulate talking about faith than some other candidates now. Do you attribute doubts about his faith to politics or to his policy positions on issues like abortion?

It’s kind of all of the above. I think a lot of it is politically driven. I also think there’s some racism attached in this. I don’t play the race card, but I do think that because his father was from a different country (not faith, because his father wasn’t a man of faith) and with the hyper-sensitivity about Islam, there’s been an effort to paint this man as being very different because he does come from a unique background.

In that particular debate with McCain, he said something that didn’t quite come out right; he was a little too flip about it. When questioned about when life begins, he said, “That’s above my pay grade,” or something like that. Because he is such a respectful thinker in terms of religious questions, he won’t give the reflexive responses. When he didn’t say the axiom that “Life begins at conception,” he was hearkening back to something that is not particularly addressed in Scripture. If we don’t come from a particular faith tradition that says this is the dogma of my church and you simply look to Scripture, “Does life begin at conception?” is an open question. And so, part of this is because he is very careful not to give just the patently religious responses, or the religious platitudes. When people don’t get those, then they begin to say, “Maybe he’s not a Christian like others that have given us boiler-plate Christianity.” I would say to that: he doesn’t pretend to be a theologian, but he really does want to search the Scriptures authentically and personally, and it’s because he takes it so seriously and so personally that he won’t automatically give the response that everybody is looking for.

Is there a level of theological illiteracy on the part of the general public that contributes to this kind of misunderstanding?

Absolutely. In cultural Christianity in general there is, but specifically, the more fundamentalist versions of Christianity have shibboleths: “You have to say the right thing with the right accent or you’re not really one of us.” Part of the problem is not his level of sophistication, but ours, not his level of thinking, but our lack of more broad-based responsiveness to the depths of the theology of Scripture. When you don’t come with automatic or dogmatic sound-bite answers, that’s a good thing. That’s a sign of personal engagement. But because we would rather just have a category of correct belief and many people are satisfied with that, then we are the ones making ourselves upset. It’s not because he’s not answered adequately; it’s partially our discomfort at not having simple answers. That’s part of the unease with his particular faith walk.

The president comes down on the side of keeping abortion legal and you are pro-life. How do you, or anyone else, preserve relationships with other believers when there are such deep disagreements over these kinds of issue?

Abortion is probably the premiere issue where we see this. I am pro-life; therefore I think that’s a baby. I don’t happen to subscribe to “It’s a baby at conception,” because I don’t see that in Scripture, but I do believe that soon after that baby is implanted in a womb, it becomes a person. So I think abortion is homicide. Having said that, the way that I want to work with other Christians who don’t have the same theological presumption that I do about the personhood of a developing fetus is to keep my eyes on the goal. My goal is to have no abortions some day, ultimately because no woman decides to do that.

Other people say, “How can we reduce, by practical common sense, the number of abortions?” I’m on board. Every baby that can be saved, I think, is invaluable. And so, if I talk to somebody who is pro-choice and they say, “A lot of abortions come from feeling financial pressure or because people are afraid they won’t be able to complete their education, and if we could relieve that kind of pressure, they would carry their baby to term,” I’m all over that. I don’t have to have an all or nothing. That’s why the president and I, even though we would disagree probably on who should be able to get an abortion, we still can agree on the reduction of abortion as a very important goal together. That’s kind of how I walk that through.